Curse

Miriandel · Sep 28, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Noobs whined for some kind of anti leaver function, Anet did it and... it's worse than before.

Now, you are forced to play with morons until the end of the fight, you just end up wasting time, like predicted if that so-called anti griefing would happen.

I thought at first it would be great but after playing several hours, it's worse than before.
You're stuck playing with mending wamos and other uber lame builds, dudes who just rush in to get killed fast because they don't like the team and survivor builds forcing you to stay watching a 'I do no damage but won't die' dude while the remaining 3 of his team are dead.

You can change rules, but you can't change human nature.
What this update did is introducing a useless time sink.

I'm not a leaver, I'm gladiator rank 5, play all professions and will probably stop playing GW since HB are still incredibly lame, with no improvement over monthes and RAs being a waste of time.

Since release I thought GW was one of the most wonderfull games ever published, great graphics, great game dynamics, great content, but over time it's going down the drain.
The korean style time sinks introduced with Eye of the North even makes me wonder if GW2 is worth considering.

Geesh, I even myself playing EVE Online again despite the atrocious PvP lag.
Sad.

NeHoMaR · Sep 28, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Look like some people is posting here without actually TESTING the new RA system, I was playing for 5 hours and here my opinion:

First, let me say I love the penalty involved in leaving the fight (even when I was normally a leaver), BUT I have something to complain:

I am Gladiator (4), IMO is now HARDER to make the gladiator title grow (for a non monk primary). Let me explain, I don't mean the difficulty itself, I mean the TIME you lose in teams "unlikely" to win, and now people always left at the end of the fight (they don't get dishonor for that) and normally leave us with 3 people in the next fight; then we lose even more time because we CANNOT leave of a team even more unlikely to win (with 3 people).

So, the problem is you now need 6 times the points we needed in the past for up tittle, but actually the title is NOT 6 times easier now. I remember opining about the title must change to 20 times the points needed if you just need win 5 times, but I didn't counted the fact you are forced to fight entire matches with bad teams and lose a lot of time, so, the time consumed is the one making the title hard, well, is not easy to explain, I don't have a good english anyway.

BTW, where is the 1 point per fight that won the poll?

Lorekeeper · Sep 28, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

1) I posted more constructive things about this games PvP than 90% of this forum
2) I *did* take my time to evaluate the system, notice how my first msg in this thread was kinda positive??
3) I am getting ignored by ANet anyway since they never do any of my suggestions but always do their own which fail. So yeah I'll QQ cry whine and rant. Deal with it.

ok cool

well i think the best thing to do is just to wait until after this weekend before making any comments on Anets actions regarding this new update. I dont expect them to make any quick changes until its been given a chance to get more exposure. Like you, i hope that the concerns that have been pointed out get dealt with. Wont know until monday or even a week after this weekend is over.

Lorekeeper · Sep 28, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miriandel

Noobs whined for some kind of anti leaver function, Anet did it and... it's worse than before.

Now, you are forced to play with morons until the end of the fight, you just end up wasting time, like predicted if that so-called anti griefing would happen.

I thought at first it would be great but after playing several hours, it's worse than before.
You're stuck playing with mending wamos and other uber lame builds, dudes who just rush in to get killed fast because they don't like the team and survivor builds forcing you to stay watching a 'I do no damage but won't die' dude while the remaining 3 of his team are dead.

You can change rules, but you can't change human nature.
What this update did is introducing a useless time sink.

I'm not a leaver, I'm gladiator rank 5, play all professions and will probably stop playing GW since HB are still incredibly lame, with no improvement over monthes and RAs being a waste of time.

Since release I thought GW was one of the most wonderfull games ever published, great graphics, great game dynamics, great content, but over time it's going down the drain.
The korean style time sinks introduced with Eye of the North even makes me wonder if GW2 is worth considering.

Geesh, I even myself playing EVE Online again despite the atrocious PvP lag.
Sad.

If you are gladiator rank 5 are confident enough to play ALL professions have all chapters. You should find yourself a TA guild or try to find a team in TA.

Leave behind the randomness of RA. It really isnt the place to be if you want to climb the gladiator title track. You will only end up wasting your time, and you have already experienced this. RA is only good for players still trying to achieve the lower ranks in gladiator. Once you hit rank 4-6 its time for TA.

Theres no choice about it. If you are serious about getting rank 7+ gladiator, you really dont stand much hope of achieving it in RA. Unless you are a multimillionaire or at school and you have time and the patience of a saint to grind it in RA.

Alphabet · Sep 28, 2007, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I love this update. I've been getting monkless teams for a while since, but we've somehow been able to kill 2 monk teams. Oh, and we got out 10 win streak. Did I mention that we were a Ranger, Derv, Sin and Mesmer?

Monking isn't a problem if you cry for offense: Just go smite. Smiter's Boon is there. =P

On a more serious note, I enjoy this update since I can now play the games the way they were meant to be played: random. When I want to make a structured build, I go to the TA. When I want to try a new idea, I go to the RA, where ANYTHING can happen. Helps me find out what builds are good, what's not so good, pros and cons of MANY of the builds people use in the RA... you have no idea what you can learn if you stop being so closed minded.

The /report griefing can be an issue, but I love how leavers now get penalized. I'm laughing my ass off at the people complaining outside of the battles... yet MANY of my teammates agree with me that the system rocks(And the matches are really fun too, much more intense I must admit since you don't expect leavers.)

Like people have said... if you want a good team, you go to the TA with friends? What, you have no friends? Then ask your guild and alliance. What, you have no guild or alliance either? Then sucks to be you, learn to make friends with strangers.

The RA is random. And I enjoy it. Mabye bring the time limit down to 6 minutes, but nothing too short... I have won yesterday 30 seconds before the game ended(Mainly because I landed a lucky D-Shot on Shield of Deflection).

In the name of Arnold S., "Stop whining."

Servant of Kali · Sep 28, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I have Dishonorable again (I had sword warrior in my team, and had to choose between 8min of riposting or 10min ban)... waiting for it to expire so instead I'll spam the forums.

Oh btw, report feature is crap. No one in RA even cares about this, if I report this I get negative points myself. Ah well, at least this might help in FA, will test it there.

Quote:

yet MANY of my teammates agree with me that the system rocks

Yes I can imagine WMo in last team with Mending (yes he had it) going "Yey! Finally people play with me! This update rulz, best ever, now my mom doesn't need to pay people to play with me - they are *forced* to do so!".

-----

Edit: rotfl just ended 8-min battle, was fun haha. 2 monks in my team plus mesmer, monk in enemy team etc... and we somehow managed to kill one person and that's it. Won in the end by morale boost I guess.

-----

Edit #2: was a fun run lol, one monk left after and we got sword WR with lvl18 pet hah! ..made few wins and died to blatantly overpowered Dancing Daggers build who didn't even have a monk in their team. Sigh.

Alphabet · Sep 28, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

Yes I can imagine WMo in last team with Mending (yes he had it) going "Yey! Finally people play with me! This update rulz, best ever, now my mom doesn't need to pay people to play with me - they are *forced* to do so!".

Or in my case, it was because all the pessemists like you are getting locked out of the RA, so the people playing are the ones that appreciate the system, even with its flaws.

And quite honestly, I have not seen a Mending Wammo in 2 days, either on my team, or against me. I HAVE seen a Shadowform Sin, but he died fast to Sig of Disenchantment.

I think we have over-exaggeration in this thread. While milage may vary with each player, I honestly think it's just the previous leavers who wanted to farm "easy RA points" that over-exaggerate their predicaments in an attempt to get others, mostly the dev, to agree with their wants and needs. Random is random. If you're planning to play RA, you should know what's in the RA based on your veteran status of playing PvP. Therefore, you would go play the TA based on this knowledge unless you WANT a random match, where you willingly know it can be a bad, good, or stalemate outcome.

Either way, have fun wasting time waiting to get back into the RA, only to leave in the next match because you get a team setup you don't like. If you don't want to plan to deal with all possible outcomes, then don't play RA: That's the challenge of the RA itself, since you HAVE the choice to bring counters, but choose not to bring them, or just bring the wrong one.

My personal favorite was Lingering Curse with some Scourge hexes a few days back, but that's just me. Your Mileage May Vary. So waste your time crying in the isle while I enjoy having a good time in the RA.

Yes, that was a complex, "Cry more noob" statement. And yes, I targeted you. Malicious, no? But you called me out first.

Now I'll let you get back to your childish whining, while I sit back and snicker to myself, enjoying your dismay and dislike of how I presented myself and what I have said. Oh, and be sure to use "You're Gay, You suck", and any other derrogative statement that you can think of at the time to target me. You'll only re-assure me that you're a stereotypical angry, selfish person with no sense of fair play, common sense, or amusement.

I should add more smilies just to be sarcastic too, but I have my limits as well.

DreamWind · Sep 28, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by African War Lord

RA is unplayable now for good players. It's just too annoying. There will be, and already is a huge increase in bad players making this arena no longer a fun place to play quick games. There were bad players before but I wasn't forced to play with them.

Forcing people to play through every team they get is unrealistic. RA was annoying enough before but it's broken now.

QFT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

So they've pleased the noobs who enjoy wammo tank battles and healing with 2 other monks on their team, and pissed off the people who actually play RA. This isn't an atypical anet strategy imo. I don't think they'll stop until every form of pvp is unplayable.

Oh thank you for posting my exact thoughts.

Cammy · Sep 28, 2007, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Anet wins MMORPGs

Confirm/Deny?

Thomas.knbk · Sep 28, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

I had a god damn escape ranger on my team. He refused to either die, leave or resign. I guess I should've watched him run around for 7 more minutes, but I decided to leave and watch some obs mode instead.
I'm sorry, but this system needs a lot of tweaking before it's not stupid.

Lord Natural · Sep 28, 2007, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

I think that was the intent. Force people thinking themselves as Uber pro RA PvPers to go in TA test their skill.

Probably, but I don't think making RA unplayable is the proper way to fix TA. I haven't TA'd since the update, but I suspect many players will be frustrated by the fact that you need 15 wins to basically equal/surpass the previous equivalent of a glad point. I'm not really QQ'ing about that, since I happen to like that the potential of long streaks makes the title track a lot shorter, which will benefit a good guild team. But I can see this being frustrating for your average pug, or even a guild team if there happens to be great competition on a given night. Not that competition is a bad thing, but if you're facing a guild of relatively equal skill and end up splitting wins, you're both going to have a hard time getting anywhere fast with this revised title track.

The best example I can give is a few weeks ago with an alliance pug, we faced a top guild team maybe 5 times in a couple of hours. Although they were all fun matches, and we ended up splitting wins, neither team really got a decent streak as a result. I think the potential of this new system in TA will depend on how many people are playing. If there are only a handful of teams and half of them are good, it will be a frustrating night for all parties. If there are a lot of teams, and those you beat can't just design a counter build and know they'll face you in 2-3 rounds, it should be a lot of fun.

I think this new system will really open up and seperate the ranks - That is, the players who are squeaking 5 winners, and the TA teams which are rolling 100 points a night. Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on your point of view. I like that (in theory) TA should be more active, but RA seems almost unplayable now, which is unfortunate.

Sab · Sep 28, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

You can't leave:

- even after you win (and before the timer)
- if someone else on your team has already left
- if someone on your team is griefing
- if there's a stalemate and neither team wants to resign (no I'm not waiting 8 minutes or whatever's left of the timer, the next match will probably take just as long)

Fix plz.

dasmesee · Sep 28, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I agree with everything ALPHABET said and I'm also laughing at the selfish leavers. Serves you all right for being ignorant and selfish to come in to a RANDOM arena and demand perfection! If your too good to stay in a team you personally think is crap, then why don't you just leave RA altogether?

GOOD JOB ANET, AND IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!

Servant of Kali · Sep 28, 2007, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphabet

Or in my case, it was because all the pessemists like you are getting locked out of the RA, so the people playing are the ones that appreciate the system, even with its flaws.

It's ok lol, im adapting! Woot! Now I play with no rez sig, it's not like you can quit on me because of that. I play builds which I wouldn't play otherwise and guess what - you can't quit! Hah! Maybe I'll even try Mending HealHands wammo now that - you guessed - my team can't quit! Hihihi

)))))))))))

Oh man I think RA is going to be a blast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmesee

I'm also laughing at the selfish leavers. Serves you all right for being ignorant and selfish

OK dude I think you need to chill a bit.

You do understand that players like me quit EXACTLY because we have - no less - selfish players in our team? You do understand that we quit in protest against selfishness?

You do understand that I quit when I see:
Mending
Faithful Intervention
Gladiator's Defense
etc...

..because these are SELFISH skills, and not only that, but worse than team-skills.

And yet, you dare to call US selfish.

Blame the Monks · Sep 28, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

Casual players will be earning more points. That is correct, and I would not argue that. But at the same time, better players are earning more points than the casual players for the same amount of time spent. In that regard, skill>time spent is very much still the case.

Grinding faster doesn't make it any less grind. This isn't skill > time, its skill + time > time.

More importantly, before you could leave your team if the retard count was too high. Now you have to leave pvp zones completely. Way to promote crap and discourage quality.

Vazze · Sep 28, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Before I had a chance to test it, I liked the changes, but after a few hours of playing, I have to admit I have mixed feelings.

Reduce the penalty points for leaving
I definitely did not tolerate the noobs as much as I thought I would. It is just not so much fun to play when I have to wait looong long minutes until I have someone in my team who actually knows how to play. It just feels like the average skill level dropped by three grades. This is probably partly because of the greifers, who bring builds to protest against the changes, and the suiciders, who will just rush in (because they can't leave). The change is so shocking, that it makes RA almost unplayable. I think that if the penalty was decreased to 2-3/leaving, it would allow some leaving, still it would be enough to stop the most notorious leavers.

Display the penalty points
It is very annoying that I dont even know if I have a point (if someone reported me?) or if I do have some, how many. It could be similar to the minion count, display the buff icon after the first point and put a number in the icon.

No penalty points for leaving if...
- another player from the team already left. Obvious, it is a total waste of time.
- someone is leaving after half time (4 and 6 mins). I dont want to waste 12 minutes just to wait until my dear friend 55/earthtank/runner dies. Even 6 min is too much, ....but at least a little less.

Bug: if someone leaves in the last few seconds after a victory...
...the team will not get a new player, instead the old player will still be listed on the team, but he will never connect, his name will be grey for the entire next match

Andrew Patrick · Sep 28, 2007, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Isn't that the nature of Random Arenas? You have just as much of a chance of going up against a team lacking defense or lacking offense as you have being on that team. It's the nature of the beast when you play in a random battle.

It's a lot like sealed play, which is how I look at it. You have a risk of being on a team with a strange, and possibly ineffective configuration, but everyone entering shares that same risk. Leaving and rejoining over and over again until you get a team that suits you is not random. If you always want to be on a team that is to your precise expectations, I have to echo others here and suggest you try Team Arenas. If you are going to play random arenas, IMO, you should take the bad with the good, and give every battle your full effort. I was just in Random Arenas not 30 minutes ago. I was on a team with 3 sins and a necro. A team that, two days ago, most likely would have had some leavers. We stayed, gave it our all, and won 10 consecutive battles, losing upon reaching TA. Even with the old Glad title, that would have been a glad point. Based on what I have seen so far, I feel this system, if nothing else, encourages people to actually *try* in a battle, instead of looking at their party bar, seeing no Mo/ and leaving.

In short, it seems this has made Random Arenas random again. Of course, we will be watching to observe the changes, and I am certainly passing on your concerns or complaints about the system.

NeHoMaR · Sep 28, 2007, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Natural

... many players will be frustrated by the fact that you need 15 wins to basically equal/surpass the previous equivalent of a glad point.

Hmmm! good point, you mean we need 15 consecutives for make 1+2+3=6 points, and because points are multiplied by 6, 15 consecutive now has the same reward as 10 consecutive in the past.

Both, getting points every 5 wins, and anti-leaving system look plenty good alone, but when combined make things really weird.

Forcing you to play with every random team is not as bad, but add a lot of time consuming, so, maybe the 1 point per win could fix this? because I don't care being "forced" to play in a team (even with less than 4 people) if I could win something (1 point) anyway.

Also, we can leave just 1 time per hour without the temporary PvP ban? Look a little ... drastic, maybe?

I really really love RA, please ArenaNet, make everything in your hands for make the place good and fun.

...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

I was on a team with 3 sins and a necro. A team that, two days ago, most likely would have had some leavers. We stayed, gave it our all, and won 10 consecutive battles, losing upon reaching TA. Even with the old Glad title, that would have been a glad point.

That is 100% true, but remember you won 3 points, and you need +6 times more points now for work the title as fast as before the update. Maybe I am missing something, but that is exactly how it look for me.

You should be able to win 5 consecutive +6 times, in the same period of time you was able to win 10 consecutive just 1 time, for work in the title at the same speed.

moko · Sep 28, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

i think something all of you have to consider is that this new update is attracting many noobs for the first days.

there are currently 9 english euro districts, filled with 8 districts of bad pve players. give it some time and they will realise that it's not easier for them to farm their uber uber gladiator title.

of course, less noobs around won't fix the problems with the bad anti leaver/leecher system atm, but it will at least make it a bit better.

going to RA should be without the intention to farm glad points, because you will be frustrated -- you should see it as a little extra and laugh at the terrible builds you face (and win with).

however, all these problems that have been posted need to be fixed. giving a penalty for a match where nobody can win, where 2 are griefing with eachother, where someone wants to run, where someone else left already, etc etc.

Quote:

Bug: if someone leaves in the last few seconds after a victory...
...the team will not get a new player, instead the old player will still be listed on the team, but he will never connect, his name will be grey for the entire next match

this is only the case if you leave shortly before it loads. sometimes there's no timer after your win, you leave and it was too late for the team. but if there's at least 10+ seconds remaining it should be no problem to get another teammember. and even if, hell, you won't die if you have to stick around for another game..

i think many of you should get off your glad point farming horse already and see RA as something new, if you don't want to waste your time, go PvE? nobody will punish you there if you leave your pug or hench party. if you're still after gladpoints, your problem, you either stand the annoyance or go to TA. RA is supposed to be a starting area and not a place to boost your glad e-peen without having any skill.

also the /report needs a new system, seriously, nobody ever reports, and if you do it alone you get punished, wow...nobody will ever start using it. GG. i can ban myself from the game /yay.

last thing is..balance.

yes, it's time for an arena balance. it's needed badly. incredibly dumb builds are out there, farming the PvEers that are coming. no more chances for balance, no more fun, TA is pretty ruined.

- A/Mo farm -- fix deadly arts (paradox, other threads for ideas)
- Steady Stance -- i don't care if Izzy is a terrible warrior, change it, it's dumb
- Angorodon -- again, just nerf it, what the hell where you thinking? link the energy gain to Soul Reaping (see other threads for suggestions)
- Thumpers -- lol yes again, please kill RaO for good. Warmongers needs a nerf also.
- Melandru/Smiteway -- Melandru, Aoe Smiter, Wor Rit, Smiters Boon monk, incredible overpowered team template. we all know that Melandru needs a nerf, it's too good, paired with the smiter it just owns shit, and the backline owns your melees with absolute incredible defense.

these need work ons to make TA a bit more enjoyable again, and instead of making it a farm fest, turning it in something that requires a bit more *skill* again, because right now it doesn't require any skill at all, and the title is a pure time investment.

please, fix these things.

Vinnyman · Sep 28, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote: